[Greg Boyd] OK. I think we're ready to rock and roll. Hello, Sheila. Hello, Claire. Hello, Heather. Good afternoon. And to everyone who's tuning in live or via the recording. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.

It's cold and it feels like September, but I'm trying to embrace the fact that it says August on that slide. I'm gonna lean into that, for the purpose of the conversation today.

We're gonna start with a conversation about productivity in the Canadian workforce.

For those of you tuning in, I will promise you that the first part of the conversation will feel a little bit gloomy. But with the group of people that we have joined for the conversation today, I promise it'll end on a high note. We have a fantastic group joining, which is probably why so many of you have chosen to take some time out of your day to participate.

The panelists that we have joining us this afternoon — if this is your first time joining us for one of these conversations, and you haven't met me before, my name is Greg and I work at a company called Uvaro. We're a workforce development provider and we aim at helping Canadians break into Canada's innovation economy and achieve career success.

I'm joined by Sheila Fung, Claire — my friend and partner, Claire Quirion — and my new friend and collaborator on the webinar today, Heather Gojanovich from RBC.

I would love for a quick round of introductions. I'll start with you, Sheila, then Claire and then Heather. Give a quick introduction, who you are, the organization you're with and what you're looking for in the next hour. That'd be a great place to start. 

[Sheila Fung] Great. Thanks Greg. I'm Sheila. I'm here with Uvaro and I think I'm most excited today to have the opportunity to wallow in the overlap of skills training, adult education and AI technologies. That's something I'm really excited about. Excited to dig into it with you too, both Claire and Heather. 

[Claire Quirion] Awesome. Thanks, Sheila. Hi, everyone. My name is Claire Quirion. I'm with Digital Nova Scotia. I am most excited to learn from the other panelists. You know, we all collaborate, but we each bring unique insights based on the positions we have in the industry. So I'm excited to hear other perspectives today. 

[Heather Gojanovich] Wonderful. Thank you, Claire. My name is Heather Gojanovich and I work with RBC at our innovation hub in Bedford, and I'm really looking forward to getting some new perspectives and some new ideas around building a diverse workforce, and building productivity across our team. Looking forward to it. 

[Greg]Thank you. Well, the opportunity is there for us to deliver on that promise together. So, challenge accepted, and I'm looking forward to that and I hope those who are tuning in are looking forward to the conversation as well.

My aim is to follow this agenda as closely as possible, if not run ahead of time so we can really dig into the meat of our conversation. Because we'll hear more from Sheila Claire and Heather in just a few minutes.

But I wanted to start by setting the stage on the state of productivity in Canada and what that means, and then dive into just a rich discussion about how we're seeing the state of productivity play out and the model for growing and boosting productivity in innovative ways using the eastern Canadian region as a shining example for that.

We'll also have an opportunity for those of you who are here live to participate via question and answer. I will call upon you as we get to the halfway point. If you're joining live, look down to the right hand side of your screen. There is a non intuitive icon that looks like a triangle square and circle. You click on that, that'll pull up your ability to engage with the Q and A, that is, question and answer. This is an opportunity for us to hear from you. And so that is your practice run.

We're gonna come back to this, there will be a skill testing question before we break into the conversation. So again, triangle square circle, that's where you can access the Q and A.

And as we're going through this overview, and as we get into the conversation today, I would love to hear what questions you have, how you might want to contribute to the discussion because it will be enriched by our participants.

So let's dive in and just start with talking a little bit about the state of productivity in Canada.

The reason that we're all here for this discussion, I think what likely brought many of you here besides the fact that we have a wonderful group of panelists in the discussion, is this idea, that productivity in Canada is on the decline, is perhaps top of mind for you. This is not new information. It's been raised and we'll talk about where this is prominent in the workforce. And the impact this has on how we engage as Canadians in the workforce. But as a counter to that, and this will be the bright spot of the conversation, looking at how skill development is a key driver in improving the productivity of the workforce.

If we look at the skills and the technologies that are available to the individuals in the workforce. This is how we can improve our level of productivity on a macro level.

So if there's two things that you take away from the conversation, it would be these: Productivity is on the decline — There's a problem and we need to address it. And that skill development is a critical lever in helping to resolve this issue.

But let's go into each of these in a little bit more detail. At the beginning of the year, Carolyn Rogers for the Bank of Canada came forward and was controversial in making this statement: That there's an emergency and when you're in an emergency, you need to break the glass, and now is the time to break the glass. And since that conversation happened, there's been just a series of articles, video produced, and an increase in investments that are being made; whether it's Ontario's Skill Development Fund, getting an additional $260 million boost to help grow skills. But pointing at this issue of productivity in the workforce in Canada being a real challenge.

Now, when we look at productivity, we tend to characterize it in two general ways. First would be through this lens of productivity growth and how the Canadian workforce productivity is growing relative to our neighbors. Of course, when we look at our neighbors or think about our neighbors, we first go to the United States and how we're doing relative to them. Workforce productivity should always be increasing. Theoretically, you've got more skills, you've got more and better technologies available to you. So it should be going up and to the right.

Back in 1980, our productivity or rate of productivity actually exceeded that of the United States. We're both growing but just Canada a slightly higher rate. We've fallen since 1980, most specifically, starting in the early 2000s, well below the growth rate that the United States has been experiencing. And if you zoom in on that image in this diagram provided by Stats Canada, in the last six quarters, we've actually seen not just that Canada is falling behind in our growth rate, but that the growth rate is no longer a growth rate. We're actually seeing a decline in productive output. That is the amount of GDP produced per worker in the workforce. And that's a real challenge.

Now, the United States is one basis of comparison, but the other to look at is our other G7 partners around the world. And this pattern holds where we again outproduced our G7 partners but have fallen below that average productivity growth rate, which poses a real challenge.

The other way to look at productivity, is something I think is a little bit more concrete, which is how does it apply for me, the worker in our workforce, if I'm producing? And I'm showing up and I'm being paid to do a job. How much economic output do I produce per hour worked? And again, we're seeing just in broad economic terms that Canadians are producing about $20 per hour less in economic output relative to our American counterparts. And if we're going to continue to compete on the world stage as we do, that would imply that Canadians need to work an extra seven days a month just to keep pace with that economic output.

Now I love my job. I love what I do. Sheila, we work together. I know you do too, Heather and Claire. I know you do too, but an extra seven days a month is a little bit too much to ask. And so this is what's driving that impetus or the urgency for the conversation. And what again, likely brought many of you here.

So the question of "is this a trend or is this just a fad?" has been posed and it's been raised. But the data suggests that with six consecutive quarters of downward economic productivity, decline, this is actually shaping up to be more of a trend than a fad. So we've seen this productivity challenge and it's been on decline for some time.

Why are we having this conversation now? And this is where we can get into this conversation a little bit about AI. And it wouldn't be a webinar in 2024 if we didn't talk about AI at some point.

So just to raise it, there are these different phases of revolution. This is summarized, of course. We've seen a digital revolution most recently. But what we're seeing now is an opportunity for technology to play a major role in boosting workforce productivity.

Eighty six percent of Canadian workers are shown to be exposed to artificial intelligence tools and technologies in some way in their work in the course of a week or a month on the job. Yet, only 6% of Canadian companies report using operational AI in their businesses — and that's for knowledge workers. And that poses a real gap or divide. It shows that there's an opportunity to think about "how do we embed and use technology and upgrade the skills of the workforce to combat this productivity challenge?"

The reason it's coming to the forefront is if we want to boost productivity, investing in skills is a key way to do that. And we have an area where Canadians stand to invest and have a big impact. Now we have a point of view in this.

So we are Uvaro, we are hosting this conversation today and in partnership with Digital Nova Scotia — Claire and team — we've launched programs together that focus on building skills, but we look to do it in a different way. We use an approach that's called long tail program design. So we think about the delivery of programs a little bit differently. We want to wrap the way enablement is delivered in a little bit of a different model. And it focuses on having a longer amount of exposure to support an individual to build skills, put those skills to practice, and then get advice and support and either applying those new skills that they've learned to their job search or on the job.

And as Heather will speak to in the context of RBC, helping people who are in jobs to adopt and embrace new skills, perhaps by shifting and adjusting their roles to just get exposure to those different skills. This idea of long tail design is how we think about and design programs for adult learners.

The model that we use at Uvaro — and if you're a funder or if you're a partner who thinks about workforce development challenges, if you're in conversation with us — we will come back to this idea of having a long tail program design where we look to embrace this idea of connecting education.

So skilled development, connect that with experience which we do with our partners at Riipen, and merging that with this idea of advancement and advice, getting context and how to apply those newly developed skills to your job search or on the job.

Bring this whole circle though, back to where we started, we talked about a workforce where productivity is being a challenge.

We talked about the importance of skill building and helping to boost workforce productivity.

The Bank of Canada did raise this is a challenge. They've sounded the alarm but they also gave us a bit of a road map on how to solve this challenge, which is what we're going to dive into today. They said three different things that you can do to boost or address the productivity challenge in the workforce. First being capital intensity, so making investments, so that you have companies that have a more effective way to deploy their labor. Second is improving the skills of the workers that you have in the workforce. And third, this idea of multi factor productivity, which I've googled at least 14 times. But this idea of the merger or the intersection of capital intensity and labor composition.

So how do you actually integrate technology and skill development to produce a more productive workforce? This is what we're going to focus on today is these latter two components, is this idea of improving workers' skills and training, and multi factor productivity, giving the workforce exposure to new tools and technologies and providing that enablement so that the the workforce that we have can become more effective.

This is our opportunity to dig in.

Now, I did promise to those of you here with us live that there would be a quiz about halfway through the discussion. We're not even halfway yet. But I do, before we dive into a conversation with Heather, Claire and Sheila.

For those of you who are online and live with us, this is your chance to shake yourself loose. Perhaps you drifted off to another web screen. Perhaps you're checking your phone. I'm not sure what you might be doing, getting a snack? Race back to your laptop. Open up the browser window. And if you look down to the bottom, it's a triangle square and circle. If you click on that, there's a spot where you can enter in or click on Q and A, and there's a spot where you can enter in your questions.

I'm gonna ask you a question very quickly and I'll look for you to use this as a spot to respond just to show us you know how to use a Q and A. Which is an opportunity for us to know that you're there, you're with us. And then we'll have an opportunity to have you dive in and participate in the conversation with us.

So quick question to the group. And this is not Sheila, Heather, or Claire to any of you just yet. I've got a different question for you. But for those of you who are listening online, just if you can quickly go in and click into the Q and A, provide a response.

What time do you set your alarm in the morning? And how many alarms do you have to set to get out of bed?

I'm looking for those responses to come in to just make sure everyone knows how to use this function.

Oh, very good. One alarm, Rotimi. Impressive. 5:30.

I used to be a one alarm person. I have now evolved to be a two alarm person. Now, I don't count the fact that I like to use my wife's alarm as a third alarm. So I'll just keep it as two.

Cool. We're live!

Heather, Claire, Sheila. They're with us.

So I think it's time to dive into some some conversations. I'm gonna pull down my screen share. And just want to move over into the conversation.

For those of you who are listening in live, I'm gonna ask a few questions as we're getting responses and discussion going with Heather, Claire and Sheila.

If you have a question, please post it into the Q and A. I'll be watching for those there. For those who see a question that you're interested in. You can actually just upvote it by clicking on sort of the thumbs up icon you'll see in that Q and A space. Let's dive in. Claire, Heather, and Sheila.

I'll start with you, Heather. This is a question specifically with you in mind just in the context of this conversation about productivity. You gave a little bit of context about who you are and the organization that you support. But perhaps you can give us a little bit more detail and then answer the question that will kick us off, which is "how do you characterize the workforce you're aiming to build in Eastern Canada, and why?" 

[Heather]So that's a great question. The the RBC innovation hub was started in 2015 in in Bedford. And at that time, we had two operations teams, we had finance, shared services and payment and trade operations, and it was about 100 people.

Now, I've been with RBC for over 30 years. I started my career in Ontario. I spent 10 years working in downtown Toronto. So I worked in technology operations, sales and marketing, project management, product management, strategic planning, yada, yada, yada. And when I moved to Atlantic Canada, I kind of accepted, I was probably leaving career advancement behind.

But when I saw the innovation hub open up in Bedford, I realized that the opportunities that were presenting themselves there. Right here in Nova Scotia were jobs that typically you had to move to Toronto to do in the past.

And I thought that was really exciting.

So over the next several years our hub grew and grew and grew. And now we're at almost 1,100 people working across finance, risk audits, cybersecurity, capital markets, global functions, technology.

We've got over 22 teams spanning four lines of business now. And it's really an incredible success story for the province, but also for RBC.

So we're looking to build a really diverse workforce out here in Halifax. And while there are a broad range of skill sets that we need for our innovation hub, there are definitely a number of key attributes that we seek for all of our team members at RBC. And those are the ability to collaborate as a team, to be curious, creative and innovative, but also to have a desire to continually be improving and developing your capabilities.

So we've got a wide variety of functions and businesses in our hub. So there's tremendous opportunity to work, learn and develop into new roles. But that ability to pivot, to evolve with your work and to help design and drive the evolution of your work is increasingly important.

If I look at the teams that are really looking to grow in Halifax over the next few years, there's a common theme in terms of technical capabilities, business and data analysis and problem solving.

Our involvement with post-secondary institutions and in the tech ecosystem is actually how we came to be involved with Digital Nova Scotia. We started to notice we were both at all of the events with all of the stakeholders and that's really led to increased collaboration and partnership over the past few years. 

[Claire]Yeah. And honestly, I share a pretty similar beginning story as Heather, if I could just jump in here. 

[Heather]Yeah! 

[Claire]I'm originally from Ontario and kind of had the same stigma of the east coast of, you know, when I told people I was moving out here to start my career, it was met with a lot of questions of "why would you do that?!"

Especially being from Waterloo in particular, which is a huge tech hub and close to Toronto. People weren't really sure why I was making that decision.

And, and honestly, I've watched it change, the landscape in Nova Scotia, change immensely over the last decade. And I think that's what we're really striving to see continue.

I think the biggest thing for me, and I want to play off something you said, is the diversity piece, the diversity and the roles that are available here, the diversity of the people.

So when we talk about diversity — you know, our immigration plans are aligned with that and it's changing the landscape completely. And that includes diversity of thought, diversity of experience, diversity of skills.

And the way that we're going to lean into that is technology and that's, kind of where we come in because as the landscape changes, we need to make sure that people are keeping up and people have the skills and the knowledge to keep up with that and to fit in the roles that we need here.

So that's a big part that DNS plays, is upskilling and training people, and also helping employers know how to engage their diverse people. You know, it's wonderful to have them all in one room and under one roof. But, how do you make sure that they work together efficiently and effectively? So it's a lot of that training piece and that's a big part of our responsibility in the industry.

You know, historically, Nova Scotia or just the east coast in general is not known for being the fastest movers. But that's changing. And I've been watching that change.

I think the world is watching that change and, you can see that happen. You can see that happen when RBC chose to open their innovation hub here. You could see that happen when NATO Diana, they chose to open their accelerator program here. When the launch, the spacecraft, the launchpad decided to open up here. Like these are things that are one of few in the world and they're choosing Nova Scotia as their place to, open up shop.

So people are starting to recognize and the mindset is shifting. And with that productivity shifting, we obviously hope to see that continue. 

[Sheila]Thanks. I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon of leaving one thing to find some something completely different. I left my network in the Kitchener-Waterloo area in Ontario for the West coast.

And I was looking actually to move away from tech, I had no interest in pursuing a career in that direction.

I ended up pursuing education, highly informed by crisis intervention, business ownership, and tech sales, and then found myself back in tech at that point in time.

And what's really interesting is you're describing the skill set, the breadth, the underlying tones of community and self development that learners are looking for. I see very similar things out here on the West Coast, also with our members in Ontario. Of course, our team is predominantly based in Ontario. But those skill sets, you mentioned, Heather, I'm hearing echoes of that continuously.

But there's this interesting piece on the West Coast where I'll say sustainability and ocean economy are things that come up in relation to career duration, which surprised me because it's not just about the sustainability piece, but what you touched on there, this idea that we need to be able to grow with our careers.

We want more than just a job, something meaningful, something that allows me to evolve with the team that I'm working with. And I'm hearing that from so many different directions.

Kind of cool the different directions we've all taken, but very much finding things, we weren't exactly looking for at the time. 

[Greg]The reflection I have on that: Thank you for just jumping in there and contributing because I think it's interesting to hear the evolution. First of all, I should reflect that I'm still in the Waterloo area. So I'm the one that got left behind, it appears. 

[Claire]You're holding it down! 

[Greg]Yeah, we'll be here — we'll be here when you decide to come back for us. I don't know. Or you'll be there when when I come to you!

But I think so often, if you think about where do we see productivity grow and where do we see the opportunity for leadership in growing the economy in the country? And Ontario has for so long been a place where it's synonymous with the home of that sort of growth. And I think that seeing the opportunity for people to be challenged and grow across the country and to see the diversity of the economy grow, gives people an opportunity to move around.

It's rare that you hear somebody in the United States born in New York, raised in New York, work in New York and retired in New York. Quite often, it's born here, moved to California, worked for a bit in Wisconsin, then went to Florida. And that's just, there's so much breadth and diversity there.

I think it's fascinating just in this conversation to see here. We've got people moving to different parts of the country and feeding that productivity growth on that sort of theme.

Claire, a question to start with you, but similarly would love just to have some discussion about it. How would you characterize the productivity of the teams you've built — both at DNS and you're seeing DNS support — being built, in Eastern Canada? 

[Claire]Yeah, I mean, I think some of the key characteristics have been lightly touched on already, you know, diversity is a big one, but I think what I'd really want to focus on, and to me that really sets the East Coast apart, is the culture that's here, that sense of community. S

o I think people are fairly familiar with kind of the stereotypes around East coasters and how they're friendly and they love to chat and they get to know you and like, that honestly translates into the relationships we build in the business world and the relationships we build with our teammates and our colleagues.

So for me, as much as, you know, diversity and efficiency are super important characteristics — and productivity — to me, what really is our shining star is our ability to create a culture and to collaborate with each other and create a sense of community, to empower each other, to support each other.

We do that again, internally, we do that with our stakeholders. We're always bringing different people in the room. And we're all in it together and I think that is, you know, we will never have the highest population or be the biggest province. But, you know, I think what we bring to the table is a superpower in itself.

So that's a characteristic that I see across all successful teams that I've either worked in, around, or built. 

[Heather]It's interesting to hear you say that because every time we have an executive come in from Toronto to spend some time at the hub and to spend some time with the teams, they talk about the unique culture that is out here and it's not like any of the other offices in Canada. And it's part of what energizes them about Nova Scotia and Halifax as well. And I feel it's very, very special.

I would say at RBC, we embrace a culture of change and continual change. And we encourage our employees to help design and build that change as well. So continuous change and improvement, build strong productivity, but it also keeps our roles engaging and challenging. And a lot of that comes back to the teamwork and the creativity that I mentioned earlier.

One of our key leadership model behaviors at RBC is to speak up for the good of RBC. And that means challenging the status quo in a constructive manner, continually. And if we have people who are afraid to challenge how or why we do things, we won't continue to improve as an organization and our people won't feel like they have challenging innovative work that's making an impact on our organization or on our clients.

So, so our senior leaders at the hub have found the talent in Nova Scotia is exceptional. And the team and the culture at the hub is unique and that's part of the reason why we've grown so much and so quickly, and continue to have plans to do so. So you may have seen, we recently announced an agreement with the province to add between 500–1000 more jobs over the next six years. Most of those jobs will be in technology or tech adjacent teams.

It's a very exciting time to be looking for work in the province of Nova Scotia.

But that culture of collaboration and teamwork becomes even more important, the more that we grow. You know, we've got an incredibly diverse team as well at the innovation hub, people from a variety of different backgrounds and educations and countries. And that diversity leads to different ideas and fresh perspectives. And that ultimately helps build better outcomes and productivity. 

[Greg]You started to — I saw you come off there. Sheila, do you want to add to that, before I — Go, yeah. 

[Sheila]So I did want to riff a little bit just because — So I pushed the last question from what we're seeing, job seekers and employees and career builders look for.

And what you're describing, both Heather and Claire, immediately sent me down the path of the conversations I have with employers because when I'm speaking on that side of the business, everything is driven by a gap.

It's like "what is the employment gap we need to fill? What is the skill gap we need to fill?" And the piece that I've been seeing most recently is looking for a workforce and for workers who are able to adapt to change. And I think that's fair.

The last few years, we've had a lot of change in there. And you're describing this need for people who can adapt to change in front of them, evolve with what the business is needing and what's going on. So I would draw a big circle around that where the skill isn't necessarily a single skill because that skill is gonna change in a couple of months, and you know, new technology gets introduced and it's now obsolete.

But workers who are able to roll with that change, who know which skills to anchor to when it comes to adopting the new thing and transitioning what they're doing into this new context.

That was all. Sorry, Greg. I didn't mean to jump in there. 

[Greg]No. Well, I think it's related because if you talk about that willingness and ability to roll with it, I noted a question came in in the chat. I'll get to that in just a moment. So thank you for that. And if there's others, please keep them coming.

But maybe for Heather, you started to speak to some of the different characteristics of the team, but just to clarify some of that, or maybe put a point on it,

Why do you think some of the characteristics that get described about the team and the hub in the East Coast? What do you think it is about the environment of the hub that creates those characteristics of a higher performing team? 

[Heather]Well, I think there's a couple of things, first of all, you know, when we hire, we're looking for someone who is collaborative and works well as part of a team. So we're naturally tending to hire people you know, who are good collaborators and good team players. But we also nurture that.

So if I think about today, for example, when I left the hub, we were having harmony fest all week. So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and we've had a committee that has put together lunchtime events each day this week and they're inviting all of the employees of the hub to come over to a different building than they work in and to meet some of the teams, but they're also celebrating their cultures. So they're bringing in food from their country and listening to music from their country and they were encouraged to wear their traditional dress from their country and it's continually organizing and holding activities like that, that help create that culture as well, right? Because people are learning more about each other, they're engaging more, we call them employee engagement activities. And I think they're incredibly important.

That's part of what contributes to that culture as well, right? 

[Greg]That's awesome. And the word harmony just means something deeply personal to me as well. It's one that you don't throw that around. And hearing you say Harmony Fest is a core theme, there's something special about that. And not to over rotate on it. I mean, RBC is a big corporation, big company, but to embrace that culture in the diversity of the teams and have that lead to productivity and to the hub being a high performing team, I think is remarkable. That's — thank you for sharing that.

A question that did come in and I think this is one for each of you, but I'll start with a reference to a point that you were making, Heather, about continuing change. We talked earlier about AI. So: Question — and it doesn't need to be you out of the gate, Heather, necessarily, but it was riffing a little bit on a comment you made — How do you approach a team that isn't leveraging AI, but you see that as a way that you want to drive productivity?

I know, Claire, DNS is doing some work with AI. And so, maybe I'll leave it as an open question. Maybe for comments, to start with you, Heather, on how is AI being embraced?

If there's any broad commentary there and then AI as an example, is it how are you encouraging teams to embrace this technology in their work? 

[Heather]Yeah. And you know, the subject of AI is absolutely everywhere. I am absolutely not an expert in that, in AI. But I would say obviously, like every other company, we are looking at use cases and ways to to integrate AI in a very careful and, responsible manner.

If we look at things like, you know, automating very unrewarding tasks that people are doing right now so that they can be freed up for more challenging and interesting work. You know, that might be an example.

Each business is looking at it differently and in a way that makes sense for their particular function or or business. You know, I think we will — we're going to go into this world responsibly and cautiously over the coming years, and it'll be fascinating to see where it lands, and how it, ultimately improves our lives or our processes or our jobs, for sure. 

[Claire]I think, you know, from my perspective, in order to successfully implement AI — or really any big change, but AI is probably the biggest change we've seen since the internet — it's really, to me, a combination of a few things. It's education around what it is and how to use it. So a lot of change management, navigating all the changes that are about to come and sometimes the hesitations or the unknowns that come with that, but also tailoring the tools to what they're doing to the job.

So, you know, we are soon to launch — actually, applications already open — but soon to officially kick off a new AI micro-credentialing program.

And when we were building that in collaboration with Saint Francis Xavier University, that was one of the biggest things we're hearing from industry, is you can say "use AI" all you want, but people don't know what that means for them.

That's such a huge barrier, you know. So I think a lot of people just think of ChatGPT like, well, I don't really need it, you know? So when we built that program, we had kind of started it with general information taught by a professor, and ended it with general things, like ethics and things that everyone needs to know, but the actual streams are led by industry.

So it's AI tools for project managers, AI tools for marketers, AI tools for manufacturers and AI tools for developers.

They're all using AI, but they use it extremely differently and they use different tools and they apply them differently. So I think a lot of it is tailoring it to what are they actually trying to achieve here and how would AI help them in their job?

Or else it's hard to conceptualize sometimes what AI really is and can do if you don't really know. 

[Heather]Yeah. 

[Claire]So I think that's a big, big thing, at least that we've seen and we've heard from industry and, people who are struggling to find it often in their own workforce though. 

[Greg]Awesome. 

[Sheila]Can I jump in, Greg? I really — 

[Greg]Yes! 

[Sheila]I love approaching this tactically. Exactly what you're describing there, Claire, with "it's got to be role specific." I have fielded this question from so many different walks of life in one room, which is great. And it's very organically produced a learning process that really seems to connect AI to what you do in your day to day. And it starts with the human in front of you who is an expert in their job. Right.

And it's very hard to come in from outside and be like, here's how you're going to do it more efficiently, more effectively with AI, because you're absolutely right: AI means something different to everyone and they might not even be thinking of it in terms of something they want to adopt, because their fear attached to it. Like what if we replace myself? That's not what I want.

You know, there's underlying themes of that.

So starting with the person, the thing they do at an expert level, breaking it apart. What are the pieces that we can outsource, automate, do faster, better that are then like you said, how they're going to free you up to do the parts of your job you actually like, or to learn new things or to grow in your career?

I love this. We're coming full circle to growing in your career, Greg. Oh my goodness. 

[Greg]And Sheila, that was a great way to finish the sentence. That was like an exclamation mark!

But Sheila, even, I think, this idea of a company like RBC looking at, "OK, how as an organization, how do we embrace this technology?" That's a process that will take time. So you're looking at it through the lens of how do we equip people in the workforce or who are looking to get into the workforce with this new set of skills? And so people are interested, and then Sheila, your perspective on "now when I'm sitting tactically across from a human being, how can I have somebody open up and embrace this as an approach?"

It's actually, it is full circle, because to have a person inside the business at RBC who embraces the technology and uses it can lead to that broader change and have it become a more comfortable and accepted way to work. Cool. Thank you for that.

Heather, I want to come back to you with a question just about some of the work RBC is doing as you think about that need to deliver 500 to 1000 jobs, And how you approach building the pipeline of talent to join the teams that you're looking to build in Eastern Canada. But also the capacity that RBC and other employers will need now and in the future. So how do you grow your pipeline of talent? But also how do you grow the talent that you have? 

[Heather]Yeah, absolutely. So you know, our teams at RBC are really actively involved with the post-secondary institutions. So we participate in career fairs and industry forums and IT fairs and networking events. We provide mentors and judges, right, for student challenges. We also organize the annual Halifax Innovation Challenge where teams of students are organized and invited to develop and present solutions to local real world problems, right? So they've got to work together as a team to listen to each other and develop a solution and present and tell that story to a panel of judges. It gives a great opportunity for our team members to work with and to mentor and to coach youth.

But those kinds of team based problem solving events really provide students with that hands on experience of working as a team, listening to others, developing solutions and then ultimately presenting their stories or proposals, right? So those are all activities that we participate in that help build our talent pipeline. Like these are critical skills for the workforce of today, regardless of whether you're a programmer or communications analyst, a financial analyst, etc.

We all have to work together as part of a team to some extent, regardless of how independent our actual work is. So we find that participating in these kinds of events allows us to build our early talent pipeline.

And many of our co-ops or new grads have come from people who we've met through these activities, we've had a chance to meet them and to communicate with them to see them in action. And ultimately, you know, bring them on board.

We also recently sponsored the provincial Youth Health Innovation Challenge and provided mentors and judges for that event as well. And that was really inspiring to see the solutions suggested and developed by the students to solve for health issues that are facing us in our province today.

So, if I look nationally, our RBC Future Launch Program provides young adults with resources and learning opportunities to help prepare them for the workforce. And we've invested significantly in this program as an organization. And it really provides a wide range of activities and resources and learning to help young people get work ready.

You know, we really looked at what are the skills or the gaps that people have or hiring managers are seeing and what can we do to try and help bridge those gaps.

If I think about skills that RBC and all employers are gonna need now and in the future, again, coming back to that ability to problem solve, collaborate, adapt to change. You know, it spans all fields and experiential learning like hackathons, challenges, co-ops provide the ability to build those effective verbal and written communication skills. And I think participating in as many of those kinds of events as possible are things that we can all do to really help build the skills of the future local workforce, you know, now and down the road. 

[Claire]When you were talking there, Heather, it sounded so much like you're describing the long tail approach that Uvaro applies — it's a combination of education, mentorship, hands-on experience. And I think, you know, that's an approach that DNS embodies as well.

I think a really good reason why we make such good partners because our values are so aligned in that way. You know, we really focus on strategically training people, for the gaps.

I mean, we as an industry association, our whole job is to listen to industry and represent industry and support them. So we're constantly looking for gaps. In order to do that, we need to be asking a lot of questions, we need to be in the community at these events, and the RBC kind of "boots on the ground" mentality. We need that feedback in order to know exactly — so we're training people and upskilling people for the real opportunities, not just to release them to the universe for no one to get a job. That's worst-case scenario.

So, you know, we have two kind of different approaches — it's skill building and career building, which, you know, skill gaps and career gaps are very different in our eyes.

So we're constantly gathering data whether that's through our own research, or, you know, secondary research, talking to employers, talking to people looking for jobs.

So everything we do is influenced by the actual gaps that are out there. And I think we all are aligned in that thinking and then see that value, for sure. 

[Greg]The skill gap versus career gap. I think what we don't talk about in a way is the case where somebody is in a job and they are looking to grow their skills, to increase their job satisfaction, grow their careers and grow their economic output on a macro level. Sure.

But that idea of not just skill building, but career building is truly something that is about being proactive, attuned to what the market needs. Something that you do at DNS, that is so inspiring. And then I think what you were speaking to, Heather, that's investing in that workforce as an employer, getting the workforce to know you and trust the brand and understand and working with the workforce to help boost the outcome for the individual, because macroeconomic productivity starts with individual impact in a really meaningful way.

Sheila, tying in a question that came in from Paul, where there's some great comments about AI and the role of AI. I'm curious how you're seeing, in the class environment, when we're helping to drive skill development and grow the skills of individuals, how are you seeing this idea of, maybe paying lip service to, like, do companies really want to use AI in the workforce? And people are coming and want to learn these skills, that, are they leaving disappointed? And we don't have anything to teach them or that employers don't want those skills? What are you finding? 

[Sheila]So I think there's two parallel tracks here that are meaningful and I'll come back to it. I saw Paul's thoughts in the Q and A and you might have seen my eyes light up and I was like, oh, I agree 100% that there is a danger of it just becoming lip service.

And I think the danger zone is when the education and the skills piece feel too generic, they feel too overarching, they feel too 101, basics of, "intro to," everyone should take this.

The reality is like, yeah, you know, some base understanding of these pieces is necessary and important and we do make that available, but we package it into workshops that you can take it any time if you need them. And it's not where our programming starts.

Our programming starts with the job, the role. What are you actually doing? And I'm seeing the parallel track where the learners in the classroom don't care about it at all until they see it, do what they want it to do, immediately, or effectively, or in a way, that they can say, oh, I can work with that. I can take that output and I can make it something awesome in a matter of five minutes, as opposed to the five hours it used to take me to do it. That moment for the learner is like the "aha!" that they need. And then yes, they absolutely are adopting things that they want and they want more of it.

Very same thing for employers. There is a glut of tools on the market. Just wrappers put around ChatGPT that, you know, we're going to solve this really specific problem for you really quickly and it gets to the point where it does, but it's doing it at a quality level that's not effective, it's not useful, or it produces more work and problems to implement it.

And those are the things that employers are kind of going, what's the point?.

But when they're finding that their team is enabled in a way that they can suddenly do their jobs better, that they can actually speed up their productivity and start focusing on new product development. Because this other thing now is running really, really streamlined. That's when people start to get excited.

So you hit the nail on the head when you said it has the potential to bring the revolution, to be the revolution. We're not just talking incremental change, we're talking like automate the stuff we don't want to do and then focus on the big visionary stuff. And you know, who knows what happens from there.

So anyway, the two tracks, I agree with you. Absolutely. I think you're going down the right path there. And I think the big highlight is the moment it does the thing better, faster, way less work. That's the time. 

[Greg]On a related question that came in from Leigh, I'm sorry, I got really excited when I saw your question. Uvaro, in collaboration with Digital Nova Scotia, just submitted a proposal related to SDF.

Is anybody from SDF on the call? Hello!

And the aim of it is to support new graduates in building skills in how to use AI to boost their productivity. Because colleges and universities struggle to embed these new concepts in curriculum for new grads. Sixty six percent of Canadian employers state that "I'd rather hire somebody who does have AI skills or experience, but less relevant work experience, than the other way around."

So, 15 years of doing the job, but no AI is less interesting to me than somebody who has experience using AI but hasn't really done the job before. That's incredible. That's a two year complete pivot. And it puts a lot of young people who are entering the workforce at a disadvantage.

In that — colleges and universities, I mean, that's a big investment, and I'm exiting without skills that an employer is looking for. And so we have proposed a program to build, an opportunity to specifically support individuals in making that transition. What Digital Nova Scotia offers, the role-based skill based development for new grads is an incredible opportunity.

And Leigh if you're open to it, perhaps there's something that could be replicated outside of Ontario for other regions because it is a need. And Digital Nova Scotia has a lot of that content and curriculum and then we offer the platform to offer the support for those transitions. 

[Claire]I could just hop in there, Greg. I mean, I saw one of the — I saw part of a comment, without clicking into the Q and A — about how knowledge has an expiration date, it seems to be getting shorter, and I completely agree. And that's a big reason why we exist, you know, it's especially, the tech — I mean, every industry — you know, not every, but most industries change quickly, but especially tech, you know, you blink and something's irrelevant or they've changed the interface or whatever it may be.

So, a big reason why we are constantly putting out webinars, workshops, programming, doing research, like we do the same research, it feels like almost every year, because it changes that fast. So our data gets outdated almost as soon as we release it. You know, so we're constantly on top of it because we understand that, sometimes in traditional education, it's a huge deal to change curriculum. So it's hard to keep up with that pace. And sometimes it's just not realistic for people, especially with adult education — people work jobs.

And people, you know, people have families, dependents. So how do we provide them with upskilling in a way that's achievable for them and accessible to them? So that's, yeah, that's a big reason behind what we do. 

[Sheila]I'm with you on that Claire, with the need to acknowledge that fact. And I'm, of course, the adult learning background, I'm such a firm believer in that and why we're taking the long tail approach of the extended time and the adjustments and everything because it's very true.

Every program we've had, we've run into it. It's — time passes and adults have lives. Just got to look out for it at some point. Are you OK there, Greg, it looks like a stress test. 

[Greg]I'll do another quick audio check. You still hear me OK? Perfect.

Well, just to close this off, I just want to thank everyone who's contributed to the discussion and the questions, Heather and Claire, for sharing space today, which is kind of unique too for this sort of discussion, and Sheila for joining us while on the road.

Just as a closing question, to go around and we'll start with you, Sheila. What is something that you're doing today that Canadian employers of all sizes couldn't you be doing to make sure they remain competitive?

As we kind of tie in to Sebastian's question to an employer who might be listening in or watching the recording. What is a recommendation and something that you think that they should and could do? 

[Sheila]I'll take a two pronged approach again. Hey, here we are.

First is when considering AI and where it folds in. Taking the time to think through the ways of working that are important to your business' way of doing work. I don't mean the individual tasks, I mean, group them apart. Is it data analysis? Is it writing, is it decision making? Like what are the things that your team needs to be doing better, faster, and approach enablement from that perspective, as opposed to being too specific. Because technologies change, Sebastian said it.

The other thing that I'll draw a circle around is closing the feedback loop. And that feedback loop is the distance between employer, business needs, and then workers, learners, people who are seeking careers and growth and just making sure that there's a loop there as opposed to designing things that are completely separate and too far apart.

That's my own soapbox. I could stand on for quite some time, but I'll leave it there. 

[Greg]Awesome. Uhh, Heather? 

[Heather]I'll try and be concise here. I think, you know, you want to encourage your people to be creative and to challenge the status quo. You might need to create opportunities for them to do that.

We have a program called dynamic resourcing. Someone can come in and try a job for six months. They bring a fresh perspective to the team, and it gives them a chance to sort of try it out.

It's critical employees have a professional development plan, things that are going to help them build within their current role and prepare them for their next role as well. And it's got to be, you know, actively managed between the individual and their boss.

And then finally, really get involved in the tech ecosystem with newcomer organizations, like get out there and engage with people and build your talent pipeline, because there is tremendous talent out there. But you've got to get out there to meet it and to bring new people or fresh perspectives into your organization. 

[Greg]Thank you — and Claire? 

[Claire]I'm gonna use my final point to talk about collaboration. I think that's what sets people apart. You know, I kind of spoke about that a bit earlier when I talked about the community and how everyone, you know, we empower each other and it really comes down a lot to collaboration and — which is kind of what Sheila said as well, is connecting those dots, finishing that circle. We don't do anything at DNS in a silo.

If we have a great idea or someone comes to us with a great idea, the first thing we think of think of is who could be involved in this?

We don't want to keep it for ourselves because, you know, there's power in numbers and we want to lean into other people's strengths in their networks, into their knowledge, into their talents. So collaboration is proven to be really successful for us. And we think that really sets a lot of organizations apart when they work, kind of collaborate internally, but also externally, like who in your network can take that idea and just make it 10 times better?

And I think that's the final point for me. 

[Greg]I love that. Well then, that's actually a good segue Claire, just to us closing things off, because we have collaborated and done some pretty cool things and cool work together. And Heather indirectly with your support as a participant and supporter of Digital Nova Scotia.

Just sharing some highlights of work that we had the opportunity to do together. Uvaro and Digital Nova Scotia with the Tech Sales Plus program, funded by Digital Supercluster.

This program was all about building capacity and the productivity of of the workforce on the East Coast. And we saw an incredible outcome in terms of individuals meeting the target outcomes, getting jobs, continuing with training and supporting a highly diverse audience as well, with people getting jobs and active in the workforce.

It followed our long tail model and as a follow up from today's webinar, all participants and registrants are going to get a copy of a quick summary of what this program is about, how it was designed and how this type of program could be replicated, perhaps for you and in your region. And we do intend to see this program continue.

And in fact, right after we finish this conversation, Claire myself and members of our teams will be together talking about what the future of that program might be. And so we're excited to see that impact continue and look to work with partners to bring these sorts of programs to life, bring that long tail approach to help boost Canadian productivity through the development of new skills. So you will get some more information from us.

But in closing, I just want to say once again, a huge thank you, Sheila, Claire, and Heather, for each of you for making your time for preparing for the conversation today, for being here with us and supporting us. I think what is a truly important conversation.

Thanks to everyone who tuned in today and you will be hearing from us with some more information about how you might be able to participate in helping to boost the Canadian workforce productivity. But for today, Greg from Uvaro signing out, thanks everyone for tuning in.

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