Considering a Career Change: Interview with Musician Deanna Petcoff

When I heard musician and longtime friend Deanna Petcoff was considering a Career Change, I was shocked. She’s only 26 and looking forward with a sense of fear and dread. She felt like Career Success was looking more and more unattainable in the music industry.

Petcoff is a Toronto-based musician nurtured and fostered by the women at Girls Rock Camp Toronto. She has shaped her own unique brand of beautiful and confessional indie rock” through years of devotion to music. She’s shared a stage with Molly Burch, Tokyo Police Club, The Nude Party, and many more. Locally, the indie music community sees her career as a success story.

If you’re a Uvaro member, or you have been a follower of our blog, you’ll know that starting your Career Change journey from a place of dread is not ideal. Petcoff has been a musician for over 10 years.

For someone her age, it’s a huge accomplishment. In initial conversations with her, she mentioned that she was nearing the end of what she retroactively called a trial period.”

I mentioned that a 10-year trial period seemed like a misnomer for a career she’s always been passionate about. She expressed her worries about inadequacy and financial instability.

The music industry had changed and not, in her mind, for the better. She loves music but needs an out. Financial instability was the root cause. 

So I wanted to sit down with her to get to the bottom of it. I thought that hearing from someone on the cusp, having these internal debates, was a huge insight into the worries, thoughts, and excitements of someone on the fence.

For anyone else considering a Career Change, I hope this gives all of us some insight into our own career journeys. You aren’t alone in this.

Why do you feel like it’s time for a Career Change?

After COVID, the music industry completely fell apart and I’m having a hard time seeing the hope for artists, but also for musicians specifically. I’m trying to make a plan for my future and can’t really plan for my future if I don’t trust the system I’m working within.

But I would like to have a dog and possibly a family at some point. I feel like waiting around to see what happens feels too nerve-wracking. I just feel completely insecure.

Why did you get into music, and what is lacking there that is making you leave the industry? What’s your why?

That’s interesting because that’s kind of changing now. My why before was This is the thing I love. This is the thing I’m good at, and this is what I want to do.” And now that remains true for music but I don’t know if the industry values what I bring to the table.

Music is so specific that I don’t know if I can carve space in it for myself when I don’t know if there’s room in this industry for me. It’s always been tricky for artists. But, especially now I don’t have faith in the business of music. I still believe in the art of music. But as a career, it doesn’t make any sense.

It feels so insecure. It feels like everyone is just sort of floundering and trying to figure out post-COVID what this is supposed to look like. I don’t know if I have the capacity or depth or comfort to continue. I don’t have anything to fall back on really, as an individual.

So I’m kind of looking at my passions and who I am as a person, and I’m kind of like Well, I don’t know if this is really worth all of the stress and struggle,” you know?

As a woman in the music industry, would you be more likely to stay if the community was more supportive?

Well, the nature of this industry is that women are pitted against each other. The thing about it is that these days you can be a musician, but to have any longevity is next to impossible because there are so many of us. I honestly can’t tell whether that competition is fiercer or less intense because of that.

For any musician, woman, or otherwise, relevance is never secure. No one — unless you were famous before the year 2007 — has secured a fanbase that would remain if you disappeared for 5 years. People might pop back in out of curiosity. Like if Phoebe Bridgers disappeared and stopped making music, some people would really miss her and other people wouldn’t really notice. Then she’d come back and people would be like Ohhhh, true. I guess I’ll check that out.” And she’s very famous.

The issue facing the music industry is that we as a society and as a culture are changing. That’s the problem. We ingest music kind of on the go.

In the past when you would sit and listen to your records, and that’s the way you consumed music. Or you go to a show and that’s the way you consume music. You’re being enveloped in this world.

So yes there is a lot of competition. But it isn’t necessarily that artists aren’t supportive of each other. It’s actually the way that the world is changing. There isn’t anything we can do about that.

Do you feel a lack of potential for growth?

Totally. There is no mid-level musician. They do not exist. I was having a conversation with Field Guide about this when he was in Toronto. Because he was saying I feel like I’m a mid-level musician now, but that’s not sustainable.” He feels like either he’s going to make it big, or he’s not going to do anything.

You don’t stay in mid-level musicianship. You can maybe have it for a second and maybe get a line of credit and tour, but otherwise, you’re done or you have to jump up to Harry Styles-level fame and it’s mostly based on luck.

Career Success is experiencing financial health and work you enjoy while feeling fulfilled in your per community and life choices.

How important is financial health in making your decision between staying in music or moving somewhere else?

It is literally everything. If I didn’t have to worry about money, I would be only a musician. I would slog it out and see what happens. Because I love it so much, I would be like Well, all my rent is paid and everything is handled. Let’s just see.”

But also I genuinely believe that if I had endless funds I could hit it big. Because I would go on so many tours and I would pay to promote all my stuff on TikTok, on Instagram, whatever. I wouldn’t have to worry about that.

There are so many things that impede me financially that I can’t do it.

Is the goal of fame” hindering your feeling of fulfillment in your career choices?

Aside from the actual songwriting and music, the work itself I do not enjoy. I’ve been making TikToks which is suddenly part of my job. I am so reluctant, I hate it so much. I don’t want to do that.

But I do want to be witnessed for what I do and appreciated, even in a small capacity. I have a healthy level of confidence in my skills but that’s never been the problem.

The problem isn’t, whether I am talented enough or whether my work is worth something. It’s always been, are people going to hear this? I firmly believe that if people hear the music, they’ll like it. I don’t doubt that.

But how do you find worth in the other work that you’re doing? It’s almost like you have to insert pride artificially.

What is your definition of a successful musician”?

That’s a tricky one for me. I used to think it was if you could sell out your own show. But now I can sell out my own show in my city. And I don’t view myself as successful.

As long as I’m not making much money and still have to hold another job, I won’t view myself as successful. Now that I’m older and have more financial responsibilities and better financial literacy as well, it’s like actually, this could be my future. I could be broke forever. I don’t want that.

You kind of have to view success in relation to money in some capacity. You’re living your life. Others’ perception of you and whether you’re successful doesn’t matter because you're the one who goes home to your basement apartment every night.

Talent and passion are often viewed as more important contributions to Career Success than financial health in the music industry. Do you hold that value?

This is the thing, I’m very frugal. As much as humanly possible. I have to be. Yet, other people view me as successful.

For example, when I was selling my record to people. I was selling literally because I needed rent money, and I was like Come buy my album from me in person and meet me.” People were really stoked about that.

Even a couple of days ago I had a conversation with someone where he said Your record just helped me so much. It was my top listened-to record of the year. I can’t believe I’m meeting you right now.” And I was sitting in the coffee shop literally having cried that morning about losing a shift at my restaurant job because I didn’t know how I was going to make my rent. And this person couldn’t believe they were meeting a successful musician that changed his year. And I’m there like Can I have $25?”

You also need money to find your passion in music and harness your talent. No one will hear it if you don’t have a record or aren’t touring.

Career Success in this industry relies on finances leading to fulfillment because you can’t actually do the work if you don’t have the money to do the work.

Not to mention how expensive the equipment is. Beyond actually recording your work. Owning the equipment that allows you to physically make the art itself is expensive. I can sing in a room and clap my hands… but what is that? No one wants to hear that. There is no leeway for creation at all without any money.

Do you feel supported and fulfilled by the community that surrounds you in the industry?

I do in general. Especially my team is really supportive and the people around them. I know when people hear my music, or see me live, they do have a level of respect for me because I’m good at what I do.

People also speak highly of me because they like having me around and they think I’m talented. I know that people show respect to me, and have asked me to do things. I’ve been offered more opportunities than I’ve been able to take.

But I also know that if some people had a chance to push me down to get ahead, they would. As long as what I’m doing has value and is good,” I feel supported. Like, if I started to suck, if I released a really horrible record — like if I decided to rap — everyone would be like, you’re done and I will never listen to anything you do ever again.”

But me singing my little indie songs about all my feelings, people respect it.

Would you feel as fulfilled by music if it was a hobby?

I think about that often. It’s entirely possible and at this point more likely than not, that that will end up being my life. That I will fade into oblivion community-wise and start making music just for me and my friends. Which is severely depressing to me because it’s not what I wanted.

But when I was talking to a younger musician friend of mine who is just starting, I asked What is it about being a professional musician that appeals to you? Because if it’s just that you want to be famous… there are lots of ways you can be famous.” If you love music for the sake of making music? Yes.

I still don’t know what the elusive thing is that makes me want people to hear it — I want you to hear what I have to say and hear how I feel. I want you to hear me and find value in what it is that I’m saying.

If I was only a songwriter, I would be fine with that. But I would still need to write and record my own songs. Because I would have made enough money songwriting to support my own project as well. I wouldn’t need to promote it or whatever, I would feel fulfilled in that since I would still have the credit of being an artist and a musician. I’m still doing what I want to do and what I’m good at even if it’s not for me.

When considering a Career Change, what is holding you back from leaving the music industry?

I don’t want to. I’m not looking into a new career because I really want to. I’m looking into a new career because I’m tired of feeling financially unstable. And I am tired of worrying about my future. The financial strain is overshadowing the enjoyment of the work I am doing, and the quality of the work I’m doing.

I see myself staying close to music no matter what. Doing music for film and TV maybe. I read this career article by Uvaro actually, that was like imagine the best job you can think of and then deduct from there the things you’re willing to let go of, and things that you’re not.

My job needs to be creative. I know that. There is no scenario in which I am a data entry specialist and am fulfilled. I know I have to be creative. Is music the thing I can’t give up on? Probably yeah.

Do I spend some time working with an independent production company 20 hours a week doing research for them on Canadian bands so they can use their music for their CanCon requirements? And then in my evenings, do I do this other job that’s like recording backing vocals for jingles?

But then if the priority is security, is that actually what I’m looking for, and should I just get a 9 to 5 and kind of hate my day hours and then continue to make music in the evening and weekends? I don’t know.

If you’re looking for financial security, what about the 9 to 5 life doesn’t appeal to you?

I fear that I would lose creative flow. I am the most creative at night, but if I have to wake up and be at work at 9 in the morning, I am going to sleep through my most creative hours.

Going out to shows and seeing other music inspires me. But if I have to work the next morning, I’m not going to go to those.

In a 9 to 5, I will take on the schedule I need to be healthy — get enough sleep, and do my job effectively — but that will limit the ability that I have to make art.

You’ve worked in Customer Success before. Do you think you could find your way back there to a music-based company, for example?

As I’m getting older, I’m seeing that that may be a necessity. And I think there’s a difference in this question. Do you think I could? Yeah. Do I want it? No. Will I do it anyway because I have to? Probably.

Could you ever view another position — aside from musician — as a success?

Let’s look at your career as an example. Writing for this company — Hi Uvaro — is a stepping stone for you. You want to write fiction, but you are passionate about what you do at Uvaro as well. You’re building transferable skills.

Me, working somewhere like Spotify or Tidal, in Customer Success is not a stepping stone. It’s a completely different career. It’s a Career Change. I’m not working towards the musician” role anymore. For me, it’s not like I’m doing this thing so I can get through the side door.” Right now, I’m on the path. If I divert, I lose momentum, and then it’s gone.

Music is really interesting because you have to give it 100% and be completely available just in case something happens. Most of the time it doesn’t. But if you’re unavailable when it does, then you lose out. So you have to make yourself fully available to go on tour just in case someone asks you to go on tour.

So I can’t work at Tidal in Customer Success and be a musician because I’m not giving 100% of my time. It’s expected for you to be completely dedicated.

Do you think your music career would benefit from additional Courses or Workshops on growing your skillset?

Hard skills like social media marketing would definitely help. But I hesitate because that’s only part of my job now as an independent artist.

When I was with a label, that was not my job. It’s their job to navigate marketing or navigate social media management. I’m not involved in how they market me or how they market my album. I am the product.

The skills I needed to learn which I learned on the job, is how to execute those marketing strategies. I was being introduced to the world, not as Deanna Petcoff: person, but as Deanna Petcoff: product. Deanna Petcoff: You should fall in love with this girl. Deanna Petcoff: You should let her break your heart so she can write a song about it.

For example, my label wanted me to be this manic pixie dream girl that people fall in love with so they would want to know what I’m up to. Those are soft skills that I had to learn on the job. Communication, adaptability, critical thinking. All of that.

Even if I went the rocker way, and I wore my leather overalls, and I did all my things, then I wouldn’t have to make people fall in love with me. But I would have to make people fear me, and respect me. Same soft skills, different outcome. There’s this feeling like if you can sell people on you, they won’t care what your band sounds like.

Like the TikTok coffee shop guy. It’s the same thing. He runs a coffee shop. No one cares about his coffee. People go to his shop to see the hot coffee shop guy and see if he’ll ask them out. They don’t care about the coffee. They don’t care if the coffee’s good.

That’s the button on this whole conversation too. No one cares about the coffee. No one cares about the music. This brings me back to the original point I made. If you disappear for 5 years, no one cares about you. So while I’m considering a Career Change, it also means ending any momentum I have in the industry. That’s a huge sacrifice. And that’s not the industry I fell in love with.

I’m looking at this industry and seeing that the values I have, that used to align with this amazing, beautiful thing are being lost post-COVID. And that’s the thing. I don’t know what I’m doing or why I should or shouldn’t be doing this or why I should work at Tidal or shouldn’t work at Tidal or whatever.

Do you think you can find fulfillment and joy in another industry?

I do. But that’s optimism more than fact. I have to be hopeful that I could be happy. Because if I’m not hopeful then what am I doing? So I have to have hope. I have to have faith. I have to believe that my life is more than just what I create. And it is more than the respect I have from the people that surround me, industry-wise.

It’s also about the work-life balance. It’s about the respect I have from my friends. The respect I have from my partner. And the respect I have etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

However, I don’t know what the future holds or looks like because I’ve only known one thing. So in considering a Career Change, it is only optimism. Because I don’t know what it will look like, what I will do, how it will feel. I have no idea. I just have to hope it’s better than what I’m doing now. Because I don’t know.

Anything else?

Please listen to my album.

Are you considering a Career Change? Uvaro can help!

As is evident in Petcoff’s case, there are a lot of variables that contribute to this decision. It can feel impossible to know where to begin.

I recommend reaching out to Uvaro ASAP, and not just because I work here. If you’re unsure of direction and considering a Career Change, it can be helpful to reach out to a Career Coach.

No matter if you’re in flux or have decided you need a change, they can help you navigate those murky waters when considering a career change. Clarity can come from anywhere, but your chances are higher when you’re working with experts who understand Career Success.

The Tech Sales industry allows that flexibility that many people crave, Petcoff included. Especially as remote workplaces become more popular.

We’ve talked some about Customer Success Management. I think it’s one of the positions that serves a lot of artists because it includes creative problem-solving and working with people.

If you want to know more about how Uvaro can help you while you're considering a career change, check out our Career Success Catalog. Let’s take that journey together!